Episode 18 Transcript:

RED BALLOONS

Debbie Enever, Host

Liam Walsh, Guest

[00:00:00] Hello. This is the Bereaved Parents Club podcast. It’s the club none of us want to be members of, but here we are. My name is Debbie and I’m a bereaved parent. This podcast is for all of us to share and celebrate the stories of our children and offer support to each other. Each episode will explore topics that have relevance to us as we navigate the world as bereaved parents.

Whether your loss was last week, last month, last year, or even last century, you are welcome here. And whether your child was a baby, a youngster, a teenager, an adult, or even a parent themselves, you are welcome here. Please be aware that each episode will deal with themes of death and loss. [00:01:00] 

Our guest today is Liam Walsh. Liam lives in Oxfordshire with his family and dog, and in 2020, He experienced the twin losses of both his dad and his 15 year old son, Patrick. Liam wrote a memoir about his experiences called Red Balloons, and we’ll be talking about that shortly. I have to say that as a parent who also lost a 15 year old boy in sudden circumstances, I found the book profoundly moving, and I’m looking forward to discussing it further.

I must add that I’ve written a memoir too, called Midowed, A Mother’s Grief, and I know that Liam has read this. It’s about my first year of grief, and it also tells Dan’s story too. Liam, welcome. Thank you for joining us today. 

Thank you, Debbie. Good to join you. 

Well, thank you for being here.

Um, we’re going to talk about lots of things today, including Swindon Town Football Club, family dynamics after loss, taking on new challenges and writing about death and grief. But can I [00:02:00] first ask you to tell us a little bit more about yourself, about Patrick and your story, really, please, Liam. 

Okay, thanks Debbie, and I think you’ve introduced myself and the family, um, really well in that, yeah, we’re, we’re, uh, West Oxfordshire, which, uh, lives in my, my hometown, um, so I’ve been here a long time, um, my wife, Kate, is from Yorkshire, but settled in, settled in the south now for a long, long time too.

Three children, now there’s two. At the time, Patrick died in 2020, were both away at, uh, at uni as students. Um, and Patrick was number three. He was a, he was a 15 year old at, uh, at home. Um, so that’s, that’s us very, very simply. I think up until, up until that point when, when our lives changed immediately forever, uh, we’d had quite a charmed, in some respects, life of everything very settled and, uh, [00:03:00] everything following a fairly stable, uh, stable path, um, and yeah, looking forward to Patrick completing his GCSEs and going on to do A Levels and whatever would follow next. So, that’s the background to where we came from. 

Um, can you share a little bit about what happened to Patrick with us, Liam? 

Yeah. So he was being, uh, as you mentioned at the start of being a Swindon Town fan, very, very much so that comes with its own challenges itself. And I think one, one winter’s night he and his brother had decided to go and watch Tottenham. They got tickets for an FA cup game in the, in the new stadium, which they were quite excited about. Um, so, so to cut that story, not quite short, but to just to lead on from there, they’d been to the game in London, had a great evening together. And then as they were heading back to the station in Marleybone to get the train home, um, Patrick collapsed and, and, and, and died pretty much on the spot.

With Kate and myself at home in [00:04:00] Oxfordshire, we were obviously called to, uh, the hospital in Paddington. Uh, sort of mad, mad dash through Storm Brendan, as it was a cold, cold, wet January night, uh, to, to the hospital and got there just after, just after midnight. And, uh, yeah, that was, uh, that was our world changed very, very suddenly.

And what was Patrick like? 

He was, in many senses, probably a typical youngest child in that he was, he was quite cheeky, quite inquisitive, liked, uh, liked a good discussion. He, he was absolutely full of, full of himself. He was fairly small in stature, so he was, he, he probably had to fight for his, fight for his space, and he, and he made sure he was heard for sure, and he was, he was actually a lot more, he was a lot more temperamental than the other two.

He was a really bright kid, and he loved being outside, he loved playing football, and, and being part of the crowd, really, as I said, looking forward to, looking forward to the next steps in life. Yeah, I think he was a very, very popular kid, and obviously we loved him enormously. 

Of course. Can you tell me a little [00:05:00] bit about where you and the family found support after Patrick’s death? Was there much available to you? 

Uh, it was, uh, it was a real mix, um, in some respects in, in that, um, my wife Kate worked at the school at the, effectively at the bottom of our garden, so there was huge support from, from that school and, and, and those people, and I think she was, she was really well supported.

Um, I was working based 20, 25 miles away, and it was, it was quite a different story in terms of immediate support. And I, and I think we did, we did find really much appreciated support from our local community. We very soon became aware that it wasn’t just our loss, it was a loss for the community, and we live in a town of 25, 30, 000 people, so most people will know, will, if they don’t know us, they’ll know somebody who did know us, so it became a community loss as well as ours, and I think there’s some comfort to be found in that, equally, it’s quite difficult when it’s a, when [00:06:00] it’s, in that sense, very public and that you don’t want to go out to the supermarket, you don’t want to go and walk down the streets, you don’t, you know, you just don’t want to be seen particularly, but, um, yeah, there were, there was a, there was a lot of support from the community, and of course beyond that, immediate friends and immediate family were, were around us too.

Were there any charitable organizations that you were able to engage with at all? 

So one of the things that Kate did actually was immediately start looking out for, you know, exactly that, who, who is out there to support us more professionally and found SUDC, a charity supporting those who’ve lost children through sudden unexplained death in childhood. And while quite a small organization, were of immediate help to us in terms of bereavement and counselling support, but they’re much more research focused in terms of the work that they do, but, but they did have one or two events, I think that they were that they were [00:07:00] holding and running at the time, actually, just to explain their purpose and what they’re trying to do, which we, which we attended.

So we were immediately put in contact with a quite a small but very precious community that, you know, we hold, I think, hold dear to everything that we’ve, that we’ve done since. 

So, not long after Patrick died, in fact, very soon after Patrick died, you also experienced the loss of your father. And you’ve gone ahead and written a book.

called Red Balloons. I found it extremely moving when I read it. Can I ask you to tell us both a little bit more about your dad and your relationship with him, and also then what compelled you to write the book? 

Yeah, so in terms of my dad, tremendously close through throughout my life. With, with my mum and dad, um, and as an only child, we were a very tight bond of three forever, really. And again, they live, they live in the same town as, same town as us. My dad was Irish and, and carried, you know, carried that identity fiercely, I say fiercely [00:08:00] with him as an identity through, through the many years he spent in this country. He was really proud of, proud of his roots and, and remained pretty much immersed in the Irish culture as well, through music, through sport. Uh, and, and he was, he was keen to share that and loved sharing that with me as much as he loved, I think, sharing football and sport in this country and, and everything that that threw at us in terms of ending up supporting Swindon and ups and downs with that. 

But, uh, he loved it. He loved the day out. He loved, uh, He loved being social. He loved sharing whatever he could. So, he was, yeah, never, never far away from, from, certainly from me. 

He’d been ill for, I think, only three or four months, as far as we knew, with mesothelioma, which is an asbestos related disease, at the time Patrick died. But he went downhill, he went downhill immediately and he went into hospital the next day and he died two weeks later so whilst it was profoundly difficult at the time to go through that [00:09:00] there was there was a sense that he’d chosen to go to go with Patrick so that that was something which I think in the, in the months and years to come, provides a comfort of, a comfort of curious sorts, perhaps, that they, that they went at the same time.

In terms of the motivations for writing the book, I don’t, I didn’t, certainly didn’t start my writing journey with any intentions of, of writing a book. I, I did it absolutely the other way around and absolutely not the textbook way of, of planning anything out. I did write an initial piece, uh, about Patrick and, and dad and that football season in particular, uh, which went really well. I think it was picked up by, initially locally, uh, and then When Saturday Comes, the football magazine, uh, and the Guardian as well. 

So, so that had gone really well. So that certainly, that sort of sparked something in me. Uh, which I did continue, continue writing, um, to, to the point then that I’d, I’d, I maybe had the idea very, very, very much at the back of my [00:10:00] head that this could become something, something a bit more than some bits of writing with no particular, you know, link to them in terms of that becoming a book.

I think once I first had the initial idea, maybe my first step, and this, you know, this isn’t advice in any shape or form for anyone who’s thinking of doing the same, because I don’t think it’s the right thing to do, but was to probably Google, you know, how, how many words do you need to, to write a book?

And once I’d seen, I think 70, 90, 000 was recommended. So I thought, right, how many have I got now? And I put my articles together. I think I searched everything that I’d ever written in my life before or shared in any shape or form and I thought well if I bungle those together I’ve got 15, 000, um, I’m on my way.

Now most of that was not in any shape or form relevant but at least it gave me a platform and then I thought right okay I get 15 I get to 20. Um, so it, it, it was almost a numbers game to start with. And I was going, and I did have a friend at the same time who was doing almost the same thing in parallel about a [00:11:00] different subject matter, so, so we would, uh, we would both joke and encourage each other through sharing how many words we, we completed. So it, uh, it started, it started the wrong way around, wrong way around. And then I think probably by the time I had got to 70, 80, 90, 000, I did start some, some filtering. And thinking right, where do I go? What am I going to do with all this, uh, all this, uh, that I’ve, that I’ve strung together? 

So, did you find that the writing was, in some way, an act of remembrance? Or was it cathartic for you to, to write about your feelings? Or was it just something that you kept going through necessity? Because there must be something beyond just the numbers.

Yeah, and, and it was all three of those things, Debbie. Uh, so in terms of, necessity, yeah. And there was a moment, I think I was driving to a football game, and I remember, like, almost a, you know, a flash of, I have to write, I have to do [00:12:00] this. I couldn’t bear the thought of Patrick being forgotten. I know, we as parents acutely understand that, but for friends and wider acquaintances and all, you know, all those other people out there who he’s been a, you know, a real part of their lives for 15 years, I wanted that flame to continue burning brightly, so I did have a real sense of, I want something written down that remembers him to other people. And equally, I think, I want something when I’m 75, fingers crossed, that I can pick up and, and I can feel that, maybe feel the passion and the love as brightly, uh, at that point as I, as I did when I wrote it. So that, that remembrance bit was a real, real, uh, motivation for me. And I think the other one around catharsis as well is, I mean, sure you felt something quite similar, but it just, it has to come out, doesn’t it? And it, yeah, I, I didn’t have, much of a relationship in terms of counselling or, or any of those, um, [00:13:00] activities, really, so writing was what my, was my way of sharing and writing became my voice. 

Yeah, I think I found that writing and rewriting became a way to spend time with those memories and to be close to Dan as I was doing it. And a way of going through those feelings and those thoughts and, and revisiting them, but in a quite safe and managed way for me, without having to kind of share them with anybody else in the moment, um, I was able to just kind of explore them and then, and then stop when I was ready. 

Yeah, and that, and that’s, you know, that’s an interesting point in that I think others, certainly others in the family would find it was, it was easier to actually go and talk to somebody and have those conversations, whereas those, for me, those conversations just didn’t work. And maybe at some time in the future, they, they will. But I didn’t find the right person to talk to, and, and, and so, talking to myself, perhaps, through writing, was, was my way of doing that. And my way, you know, as you said, really, I think that’s, that’s, you said really beautifully, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s our way of spending time with our, with our child, isn’t it?

So very, very much that [00:14:00] became, that became my, my release in, in that sense, even though I didn’t know where it was going and as I said, there was no great plan and it came together at the back end of the journey, really. 

So had you always written then? Is that, has that always been a way for you to work things out or to express yourself creatively or what’s, what’s kind of prompted it before? You said you had bits and pieces of writing around, so you’re not brand new to this. 

Yeah. No, not, not, not quite, but only in a very, um, you know, I’ve written for fanzines from a football perspective. I’ve, I’ve done, I’ve done music reviews and really it is bits and pieces, Debbie, and over, you know, over, not many pieces over a lot of years doesn’t really add up to a huge body of work.

So there wasn’t much there, but when I had done it, I had found it rewarding. So, so I have enjoyed writing and it’s something that’s always been, something that’s always been there. And, and my dad said many, many years ago, he said, every, everyone’s got book in [00:15:00] them. And whilst he was, uh, he wasn’t, he wasn’t a writer, he could share a story. And in his later years, we, you know, we’d given him a, a black notebook and a pen and said, please, please, please write all this stuff down. And he never did. And it was to the point of, you know, after he died, he’d go through all his stuff and go through the house and think, please let there be a notebook, let there be something. But there wasn’t, there isn’t, uh, but I wish he had. So that was in, you know, that was in him and maybe, maybe he shared that. So that was something I was happy to, happy to pick up in that respect. 

Yeah. I think we sometimes find ourselves going back to things that have given us some kind of either comfort, or a bit of control, or some way of dealing with things. So some people might write poetry, some people, you know, they might not have written anything since school, but they suddenly find that it’s a way to express what’s inside them. We find something that we perhaps feel we can use to work through something in a way that isn’t [00:16:00] just talking to somebody.

Yeah. Yeah. I think so. And comfort is a, again, comfort. So I think it’s a really resonant word. Um, and for me that was often it was late at night and I’d put some music on, which again, gave me that, that familiarity and that comfort. And, and that was my, you know, that was my safe, safe place. 

So, once you’d got this 70-90 000 words and it was in some sort of shape, how did you go about taking it to publication?

There was a, there was probably a huge gap for me in terms of having had, having got something and then, right, I, I need to be self critical and actually try to, try to pull something together which is, Which does hang, hang together as a, as a, as a potential book. So I, I think I went through that process and I, you know, stripped a load of stuff out, which was maybe some of the earlier pieces that I said from years ago I’d written, that actually they’re not relevant to this story, or other pieces that I’d written, which I thought, well, maybe I could use that for [00:17:00] something else someday. 

So there was a point actually, it was two, about two years ago that it was the first time I printed something out as a, right, this is a manuscript one, if you like, I’m, I’m, I’m fairly happy with the shape of it. I’m now going to go through it, which itself took probably another three or four, three or four months of doing that and, and, and tightening it up and, um, and just, just making it as good as I could as a, as a first draft before I plucked up the courage to, to share it to one or two places and, and to be honest, I’d have been quite happy just, self publishing and, and, and seeing where that took me because for me, it was a case of if I’ve done it, I’ve done it. What happens afterwards isn’t, isn’t the point. 

The point for me is the journey is I think you’ve alluded to as to the actual, how have we got to this point? Uh, but one or two people said, send it off, see, see where it gets to. So not really knowing where it would sit on a shelf in a, in a bookshop was a tough one for [00:18:00] me.

So I think I picked not many, not many agencies or publishers, but around football, around sport, around grief, maybe something Irish, just to see what would come back. And quite soon actually, Halcyon, it were, uh, a small football publisher got back and said they’d love to do it. So for me, that was, that was it, I was off, uh, and, and, and chuffed with that. So it was quite, in some senses, it was quite a straightforward journey. The actual publication or finding the publisher bit was, was quite straightforward, but there was a clearly as with, you know, as with yourself, there’s a huge amount of work and love and, and tears goes into the bit before that, which um, which is maybe more private than, than others are gonna see.

And, and there were, even during the writing, there were, there were periods of months where I didn’t touch it, because it just wasn’t right. I would, I’d just leave it there and say, well maybe, maybe nothing will ever happen with it. It’s just, I’d wait for the right, you know, the time will find me if it’s, if it’s the right thing to do. [00:19:00] And yeah, it came, it came together in the end. 

Yeah, and it’s really, really great. I think anybody who loves football would enjoy it anyway. Anybody who’s ever had a dad or a son who would enjoy it. Although it’s incredibly sad, it absolutely celebrates those relationships. And that’s what makes it so compelling to read, I think. It’s a brilliant memento. And I think, I know that was a motivation for me, like you said, that actually, regardless of what happens next, this memento has been created, and in mine, Dan will always live on, and in yours, Patrick and your dad will always live on, and that in itself is just very satisfying.

You’ve written this one book, do you intend to write more about anything else now? 

Uh, as I maybe sort of referenced a couple of minutes ago, there’s one or two, one or two potentials that have come out of what I’ve, what were left in the, you know, the cutting room floor, so to speak, but, uh, I’ve not done anything with them, [00:20:00] so I don’t know whether that will, again, maybe the, maybe the time has to be right for those to, you know, to refine me again.

So one of them is a, would be a very niche football one. Um, I’m not sure what the audience would be on that, but I think it’s a, it’s, it would be a, uh, again, a memoir driven, but with a, maybe with an angle that I’ve not seen anyone else do before. So I’ve looked at quite from a you know, from a quite a geeky point of view, I’d be quite excited about doing that, and I think it could be really good. 

Uh, the, the other one, the other one would be my running journey. So the running journey is run parallel to, uh, to, to, to loss and before loss. And I think I’m really lucky to be part of an absolutely fantastic running community here, which not only is it given so much to me, but there are so many inspirational individuals within it, which collectively makes it an incredible group, so I would love to, I’d love to finish off what I’ve started writing in that direction [00:21:00] and take that a little bit further, but, but, uh, yeah, part of that story needs to, needs to unfold to, to make that happen. So we’ll see, we’ll see. I hope, I hope so. 

So that leads me on to what I wanted to ask you about, because as well as the reference to lots of football and sport within Red Balloons, you do talk about setting yourself lots of other goals and challenges. Um, there was kind of 10, 000 steps, there was marathon running. So, can you tell us a bit more about those? 

Yeah, and they, they probably, they probably don’t exist because of the loss. They’re probably within my character, you know, whether they, I describe them as goals or not, or just part of me. So the 10, 000 steps came from, and this is again, this, this predates any of the loss, but somebody at work said they try to do 10, 000 steps every, you know, one day, sorry, every day in the month of, it was March, I can’t remember what year it was – 2017 maybe – and I thought that sounds that sounds impossible and I was at the point of [00:22:00] having just got on that journey of counting steps and looking at data and stuff like that but I think I did it that March and then and I carried that through to August that year. Then there was a day I describe in the book in Ireland that I that I missed the 10, 000 because I was stuck in the pub and I just got carried away and had another pint and another pint and that was it it was half past 12 and I’d missed my 10, 000.

And, and that, something about that day struck me, um, but that was also the last day that I haven’t done 10, 000 Steps. I think that was August the 31st, 2017. So, it’s just, you know, for the first, I don’t know, the first 100 or the first 500, it becomes, it becomes something to think about, but after a while, it just becomes part of who I am. And if, if there’s something which might obstruct it during a particular day, then I’ll be aware, aware of it. And I’ll just manage my time around it other than that, it’s natural. So I don’t know how many days I’ve done now. And it’s just, [00:23:00] uh, yeah, it’s just, just something that I think is, it’s really important to, in, in, in terms of self care and looking after myself.

And it, and it all leads to some funny conversations along the, along the line as well. As to, why on earth would you want to do that? Or how, you know, how sad must you be to, to actually know that I’ll care about that? 

But again, one of the bits I do cover is that, the thousandth day of my consecutive 10, 000 steps was Patrick’s first birthday after he, after he died. So that was, it was just the way these things turn out sometimes, wasn’t it? When I was looking for, right, I must be near that milestone, and then I thought, Yeah, I know how this is gonna, I know how this is gonna work. So that was a, it was a really, really tough day, but it was equally for me. There was something, there was something for me to, to do, to celebrate within the day, if that, if that makes sense. 

Um, and the running again, the running journey mentioned the support I’ve had around that, uh, and a lot of people say, you know, does running help with mental health [00:24:00] and help with getting over loss in that sense? And does that give you a boost? I think for me, I’d actually, I started my running learning journey quite late, but I’d started that possibly a couple of years before.

So, yeah. So some of those, those boosts I’d already had, so I’d already, there wasn’t a, a different sort of, uh, uh, shot of support that I got through, through starting running after the, after the losses, it was, it was more a case of right, okay, I, I need to carry on doing this and we all cope in different ways and I’ve got no idea how I did this at the time, but I, I literally didn’t, I didn’t break it or pause, I was out with club, you know, the same week that I’d lost Patrick and, and even the night Dad eventually died a couple of weeks later, I think I’d gone to Running Club first. It was part of that necessity to, to help me continue breathing and keep going as I needed a, firstly my exercise, and I needed the, I needed the support of those around me too to help me. So that was, that was hugely comforting and very [00:25:00] much appreciated to this day as well. 

The important thing there to emphasize is that if you can start things before you’ve lost somebody, You’ve got people around you, um, to support you, whatever you go through. Because even if we weren’t bereaved parents, we would be bereaved children or we’d lose friends or family in some way. So having those kinds of networks to shore us up at times when we allow or just really helpful anyway, you know, and that’s, that’s been really evident. Through the fact that, you know, they’ve held you, you know, at times when perhaps otherwise you might not have been able to stand quite as upright. 

Yeah, that’s a, that’s a really important point actually. I, I’ve not, and I’ve not thought of it that way round, but, and it, that it doesn’t have to be running clearly. There are, there are lots of other support networks that we can all find. We find the right ones to suit ourselves, don’t we? But for, for me, irrespective of, of my journey and, and, and the losses that we’ve had, the number of inspirational people from all walks of life at all ages within that community has been really precious to, to me and continues to be so. 

How do you [00:26:00] personally and perhaps as a family mark the important milestones now around things like Christmases and anniversaries and, you know, are there specific things that you do or don’t do? 

The anniversaries are tough. Uh, and I think speaking to other bereaved parents in particular, it’s tough for all of us, isn’t it? And we have to find a way. The first year, for all of them, is probably the toughest. And the first time you do anything is always the toughest. But for us, being consistent has been, uh, I think has been really, really helpful and sometimes what, you know, what one family will do to, to survive or get through isn’t, isn’t good for another.

But what we’ve, what we’ve done is always talk and try to plan those anniversaries in advance so that they don’t, they don’t hit us. They’re not going to come at us by surprise, but they don’t hit us in quite the same way. So at least if we, if we talk through our expectations and how we want to, how we want to do it, then I think that helps us.

So Christmas. We make as quiet as possible, and that works [00:27:00] okay for us. Patrick’s anniversary is in the middle of January. And it’s a difficult one in that he collapsed and effectively died on the 14th, but he was officially pronounced dead very, very early on the 15th. So it’s a bit of a mixed one for us, which I think then you have to find the right way of, the right way of marking it.

So for us, we will mark it late at night on the 14th at the time it collapsed with a single firework. So we let a firework off at about 1045 on the, on the 14th, which I’m sure takes many by surprise in the in the, in the local town, but equally for us, it’s a, it’s a really comforting thing to do just to, just to set one off.

That’s what we will do quite privately as a family. And then on the 15th, so the 15th, this is official, is official day is, is really for others to help mark and help support as well. So, um, again, we, we really appreciate that. His birthday in, in May. We tried to do something positive, try to get some fresh air and [00:28:00] maybe climb a hill. Hopefully it’s a little bit warmer than it would have been in January. So we’ll do something active in, in, on the, on the May birthday. Uh, and then go and have a McDonald’s because that’s what he would have wanted at the time and probably, you know, maybe, who knows, that’s what he would have wanted to do now. So, so that’s how we get through that one. 

Yeah, the, the McDonald’s, um, uh, thing obviously resonates with me because that’s what we tend to do. I say we, me, and some of his friends and my friends will generally get together and have a McDonald’s either on the 26th or the 27th, because like you, we had, you know, Dan’s accident was on one day, but he was declared dead the next.

So depending on where it falls, because as you appreciate that, that sort of 26th, 27th is generally a bank holiday or around a bank holiday weekend. So we try and, and go and have a bit of a McDonald’s burger, dirty burger, um, on the 26th or 27th, just depending. 

So, um, are there any key messages that you would like to pass on to other [00:29:00] families, other listeners now, about anything to do with either your writing or your journey?

I think in terms of the journey, for us, what we did from, from day one was to try to sit around the table at the end of the day and, and to share something positive out of that day. Um, now for us, very much in those early days, weeks, months, it was, you know, literally eating, sleeping, breathing, you know, that’s enough, you know, if you can say you’ve done those things in the day and you’re still, you’re still there at the end of the day to talk about it the next day, that can be enough, can’t it?

So for us, finding those routines was really important and being able to share them together as a family was really important. So, so there was something about finding a positive, finding something to cling to and to give hope and to give a reason for, for each of us to carry on, bluntly. And if you do those things consistently, then three months has passed, six months has passed. Nine months, you know, you get into that first [00:30:00] anniversary. And so I think for us, while we’ve, you know, while we’ve, we’re all individuals, we cope and we think things differently. And we do things differently. The consistency of finding those positives has been really, really important for us.

Um, so I’d be, I’d certainly be happy to, you know, happy to share that one. So I think that, that, that self care bit, that self care bit is really, really, it’s a really, really fundamental and, and for us, or for me, it probably doesn’t go too far beyond that eating, sleeping, breathing bit, because breathing is the, is the fresh air bit and is the getting out and getting, and getting active and, and meeting people and seeing people and, and doing things. So, so for me, that’s been, uh, that’s been really important. It’s not the same for everybody. I appreciate that, but that’s, uh, that’s what I would share. 

Thank you. Do you have any new challenges up your sleeve in terms of marathons or anything like that? 

Uh, not just yet. I’ve, I’ve had a, I’ve had a year or two of, I’ve struggled a little bit with [00:31:00] injuries. This year, so far, touch wood has been fantastic. I’m quite cautious and, uh, respective of my slightly aging body’s limits as well, Debbie. So, I would quite like to do it. I think when I did my first one, somebody said, that is your first, your first marathon as if there would be another one. So there probably is one in there somewhere, but again, I think that time has to find me rather than me saying, right, I’m putting this date in the diary, putting a ring around it and say, I’m going to hit it.

I think it needs to work slightly differently. So I’ll respect what I can achieve and when before I do that. Getting the book published was a big tick, which took me a year or two to get done. Equally, running a marathon was another big tick, which was something I worked towards. So, yeah, maybe I need a new, a new something to keep me going in that respect.

Well, let’s hope that it’s writing your very niche book, either about the running or about Swindon Town [00:32:00] or something like it. Um, what we always ask guests to do, Liam, is to tell us something that you’re grateful for. So can I ask you now to share with us what you’re bringing today to be grateful for?

Yeah, and I’ve got a, there’s a couple of, a couple of semi serious ones, and then, then maybe just a bit lighter, but from a support point of view, the bereaved parent community that we’ve met, there’s lots of different charities out there, um, but for us, SUDC, s ours, uh, it’s our big one. So really, really appreciate what they’ve given to us.

And part of the proceeds from, from Red Balloons, each copy sold does go to SUDC. So, so we will continue to, to be part of SUDC and they’ll be part of us. So I really do appreciate that. There have been some great people, there’s some great, great people that we’ve, that we’ve met along the way and, and, uh, you know, there is something special in that for sure.

Again, just as a sort of following on from that, one thing I do appreciate is gaining a different sense of perspective in some respects around what really [00:33:00] matters. Uh, and again, somebody else said this to me in, in quite, in the early days. You do find out quite quickly when you need to prioritise what you do and don’t need to, to do in your day. And it does offer, say, just a fresh glimpse into what matters in life, I think. Uh, when, when you’ve been through what we’ve been through and, and go through what we go through. So, so yeah, so I, I’m, I’m certainly less niggled by the, the little things in life than, than perhaps I might have been five years ago. So I’m, and I’m grateful for that. I’m grateful for that. 

Again, a slightly lighter point of view. And it is, it is really light and I’ve probably touched on both of these, but it’s around fresh air. It’s around having a dog, um, and having a garden, uh, and being able to get out and a reason to get out every day and get some of those 10, 000 steps in or to, you know, or to see what’s growing and what hasn’t.

Those things I do really, really appreciate. So if you’ve not got a dog, get one or, or steal one somehow, [00:34:00] uh, because they will, they will offer you something that you haven’t before, I’m sure. 

Yeah, definitely. I think, yeah, dogs, they’ll just carry on wanting to do stuff, regardless of how you’re feeling, so they can be a really good motivator for getting you out of the house on days when you don’t particularly want to. I mean, clearly you will go because you’ve got 10, 000 steps to achieve, but for those of us that perhaps might not want to, having a dog that’s kind of like holding the lead in its mouth going ‘it’s time’, is, is a, is a really useful thing.

Yeah, and it comes back to that point around consistency and stability, really, that, okay, they, you know, need to go out three times a day, so they need somebody to go and do it. Go and get out there and you never feel worse after a walk. 

That’s great, Liam. Thank you so much. I think we’ve covered everything. Is there anything else that you want to add before we wrap up the recording? 

To any bereaved parents out there, um, much love and support and, and if you’re, if you’re newer to your journey, then, or Debbie and myself, [00:35:00] four, five, six years in, then, then reach out. We are, you know, we are, and many, many others are here to support and help and, um, yeah, best wishes on your, on your journeys too.

That’s lovely. Thank you so much, Liam. 

That was Liam Walsh, author of Red Balloons. Links to all the topics covered today can be found on the episode listing and we’ve even more resources on our website www.bereavedparentsclub.org.uk. Thank you for listening today. 

This episode is dedicated to Patrick.